I remember reading about the issue with UltraSparc documentation. Derek
Warren has raised teh point in a blog comment on John Clingan's blog here.
#comments
We don't need processor docs. That stuff is trivial.
We need *chipset docs*.
And those are still not available under Sun's new program.
So it is STILL a complete matter of reverse engineering.
Same as with Apple, of course: powerpc is trivial. But the chipsets
on every Apple machine are subtly different, full of bugs, and reading
Darwin is a terrific waste of time since the code is so horrid, and of
course, it is all just a maze of workarounds.
Verilog for ultrasparc? Give me a break. We don't care.

Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 11:40:28AM -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote:

Want to be clear with Sun?

They are closed until we there is complete Schizo host-bridge documentation
available for everyone.

So would it be wise to avoid Sun Sparc kit?

I'm going to be buying some hardware for offiste colos next year and was
thinking of getting some used Netras.

I'm currently using x86 kit, but the serial console access to the BIS
that Sun offer is attractive for remote upgrades.

There is the (expensive) Real Weasel for x86 kit, Dell's crappy lights
out card isn't a reliable option.

Any thoughts welcome.

Craig Skinner wrote:
There is the (expensive) Real Weasel for x86 kit, Dell's crappy lights
out card isn't a reliable option.

Compaq's remote card isn't bad, it works in any ATX PC and they're like
$5-10 on eBay. The remote console requires Java on the controlling
machine which makes it a hassle to control from an BSD machine, but
the rest of the stuff (power on/off, etc.) works. The virtual CD
requires certain model Compaq servers. I think it also does ssh if you
just want a text console.

Craig,

08/12/2005, at 11:05 AM, Craig Skinner wrote:

I'm going to be buying some hardware for offiste colos next year
and was
thinking of getting some used Netras.

The Sparc64 support page:

Shows various Netra machines as being supported.

Shane

There is the (expensive) Real Weasel for x86 kit, Dell's crappy lights

DRAC/4 isn't that bad >:}

You can always use serial console redirection on the 1850s/2850s; it
works well until S boot (BIS menus works, RAID, IPMI menus), when you
have to setup serial console redirection on the boot loader/kernel, and
then start a getty on the com.

Plus you have hardware level IPMI (cold boots, etc.) which you can tag
with a VLAN.

It's not Sun, though.

~BAS

out card isn't a reliable option.

Any thoughts welcome.

2005/12/08 16:12:58, Shane J Pearson wrote:
08/12/2005, at 11:05 AM, Craig Skinner wrote:

>I'm going to be buying some hardware for offiste colos next year
>and was
>thinking of getting some used Netras.

The Sparc64 support page:
Shows various Netra machines as being supported.

The PCI slot on the Netra T1 isn't fully supported, but otherwise
they seem to work quite well. (`make build' takes a while, though!)

Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 05:35:14PM -0800, Raymond Lillard wrote:

I have been collecting used Netra T1-105 boxes and placing them
in service of the last year and a bit. I find the combination of
them and BSD to be a rock solid solution for intermediate levels
of traffic. I especially like the LM serial interface which has
kept me from many hours of driving on several occasions.

I have over a dozen of them in service at four sites.
commissioned, not one has failed.

Cool, that's the model I've been looking at on ebay.co.uk for a while.
Loads about and cheap as chips.

I work in a datacentre and one of the blokes from Sun's biggest factory
up the road in Linlithgow has a few personal V120s here.

I recently had a tour of the plant and saw them building a bunch of E25Ks.

A mate of mine from uni is working for the Royal Bank of Scotland (one
of the world's largest) and they're getting 500 of them to replace HP and
IBM units. The mind boggles

Anyway, also saw a demo of the new Sun Fire X2100's. Most of Sun's new
1U gear is AMD, which I guess started with the Cobalts. That's one reason
why I was musing about just carrying on with x86, as Sun don't use thier
own product for bottom end kit. That to me is a bit like buying a Ford
and taking it to get serviced, only to find all the mechanics drive
Renaults.

Go to the sparc@ archives and find a posting of mine describing
how to get a CDRM drive capable of writing CDs. If you pick
up a D-130 to go with a Netra, you can build and burn new releases,
mail them to your remote sites and do upgrades without the driving.

I was going to try the swap space boot method, then do an ftp install.

Get an old Pentium-III 1U server and a multi-port serial card,
or a multi-port USP/Serial converter box for access to the
serial LM consoles on the Netras.

Another possibility is a Soekris for multiport serial access.

If I get a caged 1/4 rack, I'll look into getting a portmaster.
, for shared Us to begin with, some ISP's in London (only 500
miles south of the border) offer serial port access:

Black Cat comes highly reccommended:

I thought Bytemark were doing serial access for their colo customers,
but don't seem to be offering rack space at the moment. They are a Linux
shop, but use BSD "routers":

Thanks to everyone for the input!
Craig.

Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 11:24:18AM +0000, Stuart Henderson wrote:

The PCI slot on the Netra T1 isn't fully supported, but otherwise

They have 2 onboard network ports, so that should hopefully be enough in
a colo environment.

they seem to work quite well. (`make build' takes a while, though!)

Binary only for me, thanks!

Craig.

Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 12:44:32AM -0500, Brian A. Seklecki wrote:
There is the (expensive) Real Weasel for x86 kit, Dell's crappy lights

DRAC/4 isn't that bad >:}

You can always use serial console redirection on the 1850s/2850s; it
works well until S boot (BIS menus works, RAID, IPMI menus), when you
have to setup serial console redirection on the boot loader/kernel, and
then start a getty on the com.

Plus you have hardware level IPMI (cold boots, etc.) which you can tag
with a VLAN.

I hadn't realised that was possible without the DRAC. If I get a chance,
I'll play about with some of the test Dell boxes at work.

It's not Sun, though.

I'm not all that brand conscious, more interested in what works, is
avaiable, replaceable, reliable, etc.

I don't want to find that I can't control a box from Scotland that I've
posted to New Zealand!

I just hadn't heard anything good about the DRAC: poor support with
RHEL, etc.

Craig.

Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 09:34:40AM +0100, Nick Nauwelaerts wrote:

And as others have stated as well, x86 has some decent remote console
options as well now. While I wouldn't try those compaq cards
(frustratingly slow), new HP IL implementations work great for us.
Either direct ssh access to the server's console or https access for
graphical thingies. Even virtual media support (let's you mount virtual
floppies or cds on the server from your local machine). We mostly run
linux but installs worked fine on the HP DL585s server & BL35 blades I
tried it on.

With linux, were drivers/modules needed for that, or does it "just work"
at the hardware level?

Virtual media sounds interesting