There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all of the
4.1changes in it.
I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series versions if we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make sure the
changes get into trunk as well?
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new Spindle
4T4 core without error.
BTW is looks like only 3 changes.
Geoff

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new Spindle
4T4 core without error.
BTW is looks like only 3 changes.
Geoff

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1 is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't matter to me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1 in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in the
ass.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all of the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series versions if we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make sure the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

DTD changes are fine and expected as are removed deprecations.
Annotations are not an issue really as using them in a core Library
shipped with 4.1 would make 4.1 compatible with JDK1.5 only.

Things that are annoying in general and a killer in the core Libraries
(this is thankfully a short list):

1) The metas for looking up page and component classes are not recognized.

2) Specless pages and components are not supported, except in one case
- Specless pages in the T3 sense are supported.

3) Pages/Components declared or referenced with path like names are
ignored as far as the role they play in T4 w/respect to locating
classes and specs. It's not an error but Spindle won't find the page
or component spec/class if it's not also locatable by explicit
declaration or by the old T3 "lookup rules" which are a subset of the
4.0 rules.

In the wild it means that users that use these features will see odd
warnings and weird behviour in some cases. In most cases a handy
problem marker will be the clue to the fix. User beware. Not possible
to add a marker to a binary file in a jar so the core Libraries that
ship with Spindle 4T4 need to be 'clean'. This means a little more
work for us committers but I think it has a definite advantage - the
core stuff is easier to read and figure out (no magic).

Who knows, maybe having stricter core Libraries would result in a
teeeny weeny perfomance boost as I'm not convinced that a lot of this
magic stuff isn't costly.

These magic things are convenience items for end users IM and
Framework has, so far, gotten along fine without them. Contrib is 98%
there too. In fact there is only one component in contrib that is
problematic, D The fix for this is what 4.0.3 would contain
in addition to the any other bug fixes that have been backported.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that were marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work or not but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in eclipse for so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since my setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've been using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or others but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will have to be a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should be on dtds)
--
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1 is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1 in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all of the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series versions if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make sure the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that were marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work or not but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in eclipse for so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since my setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've been using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or others but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will have to be a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should be on dtds)

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1 is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1 in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all of the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series versions if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make sure the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

Annotations have definitely not been added to anything other than the
annotation optional jar + demo application.

As for context/template/etc lookup paths and such, I haven't changed
anything in there so you should be a-ok in theory.

I'm not against a 4.0.3 release, just wondering what the ramifications are
in terms of website content/etc. I had planned on releasing 4.1 using
maven2, as well as doing a lot of ducmentation updates to reflect all of the
changes . (and cleanup some old items)

Should we be releasing the site like tomcat does as well? (Ie a link to each
release # with its own set of docs)

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

DTD changes are fine and expected as are removed deprecations.
Annotations are not an issue really as using them in a core Library
shipped with 4.1 would make 4.1 compatible with JDK1.5 only.

Things that are annoying in general and a killer in the core Libraries
(this is thankfully a short list):

1) The metas for looking up page and component classes are not recognized.

2) Specless pages and components are not supported, except in one case
- Specless pages in the T3 sense are supported.

3) Pages/Components declared or referenced with path like names are
ignored as far as the role they play in T4 w/respect to locating
classes and specs. It's not an error but Spindle won't find the page
or component spec/class if it's not also locatable by explicit
declaration or by the old T3 "lookup rules" which are a subset of the
4.0 rules.

In the wild it means that users that use these features will see odd
warnings and weird behviour in some cases. In most cases a handy
problem marker will be the clue to the fix. User beware. Not possible
to add a marker to a binary file in a jar so the core Libraries that
ship with Spindle 4T4 need to be 'clean'. This means a little more
work for us committers but I think it has a definite advantage - the
core stuff is easier to read and figure out (no magic).

Who knows, maybe having stricter core Libraries would result in a
teeeny weeny perfomance boost as I'm not convinced that a lot of this
magic stuff isn't costly.
--
These magic things are convenience items for end users IM and
Framework has, so far, gotten along fine without them. Contrib is 98%
there too. In fact there is only one component in contrib that is
problematic, D The fix for this is what 4.0.3 would contain
in addition to the any other bug fixes that have been backported.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that were
marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work or not
but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in eclipse for
so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since my setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've been
using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or others
but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will have to be
a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should be on
dtds)
--
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1 is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't
matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1 in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all of
the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series versions
if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make sure
the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts
of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new
Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

Hmm, I'm not all that up on the website issues. Why would a 4.0.3
release be any different than the 4.0.2 release?

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Annotations have definitely not been added to anything other than the
annotation optional jar + demo application.

As for context/template/etc lookup paths and such, I haven't changed
anything in there so you should be a-ok in theory.

I'm not against a 4.0.3 release, just wondering what the ramifications are
in terms of website content/etc. I had planned on releasing 4.1 using
maven2, as well as doing a lot of ducmentation updates to reflect all of the
changes . (and cleanup some old items)

Should we be releasing the site like tomcat does as well? (Ie a link to each
release # with its own set of docs)

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

DTD changes are fine and expected as are removed deprecations.
Annotations are not an issue really as using them in a core Library
shipped with 4.1 would make 4.1 compatible with JDK1.5 only.

Things that are annoying in general and a killer in the core Libraries
(this is thankfully a short list):

1) The metas for looking up page and component classes are not recognized.

2) Specless pages and components are not supported, except in one case
- Specless pages in the T3 sense are supported.

3) Pages/Components declared or referenced with path like names are
ignored as far as the role they play in T4 w/respect to locating
classes and specs. It's not an error but Spindle won't find the page
or component spec/class if it's not also locatable by explicit
declaration or by the old T3 "lookup rules" which are a subset of the
4.0 rules.

In the wild it means that users that use these features will see odd
warnings and weird behviour in some cases. In most cases a handy
problem marker will be the clue to the fix. User beware. Not possible
to add a marker to a binary file in a jar so the core Libraries that
ship with Spindle 4T4 need to be 'clean'. This means a little more
work for us committers but I think it has a definite advantage - the
core stuff is easier to read and figure out (no magic).

Who knows, maybe having stricter core Libraries would result in a
teeeny weeny perfomance boost as I'm not convinced that a lot of this
magic stuff isn't costly.
--
These magic things are convenience items for end users IM and
Framework has, so far, gotten along fine without them. Contrib is 98%
there too. In fact there is only one component in contrib that is
problematic, D The fix for this is what 4.0.3 would contain
in addition to the any other bug fixes that have been backported.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that were
marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work or not
but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in eclipse for
so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since my setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've been
using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or others
but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will have to be
a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should be on
dtds)
--
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1 is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't
matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1 in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all of
the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series versions
if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make sure
the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the parts
of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new
Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

Yes but that is an alpha release right? Are you suggesting that an
alpha release of 4.1 means that the website will shift focus to 4.1
over 4.0? Not sure if that should happen until 4.1 goes final.

Anywho, sounds like a topic for everyone needs to get thier two cents in on.

:-)

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Because 4.1 should theoretically be getting released this week.

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Hmm, I'm not all that up on the website issues. Why would a 4.0.3
release be any different than the 4.0.2 release?

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Annotations have definitely not been added to anything other than the
annotation optional jar + demo application.

As for context/template/etc lookup paths and such, I haven't changed
anything in there so you should be a-ok in theory.

I'm not against a 4.0.3 release, just wondering what the ramifications
are
in terms of website content/etc. I had planned on releasing 4.1 using
maven2, as well as doing a lot of ducmentation updates to reflect all of
the
changes . (and cleanup some old items)

Should we be releasing the site like tomcat does as well? (Ie a link to
each
release # with its own set of docs)

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

DTD changes are fine and expected as are removed deprecations.
Annotations are not an issue really as using them in a core Library
shipped with 4.1 would make 4.1 compatible with JDK1.5 only.

Things that are annoying in general and a killer in the core Libraries
(this is thankfully a short list):

1) The metas for looking up page and component classes are not
recognized.

2) Specless pages and components are not supported, except in one case
- Specless pages in the T3 sense are supported.

3) Pages/Components declared or referenced with path like names are
ignored as far as the role they play in T4 w/respect to locating
classes and specs. It's not an error but Spindle won't find the page
or component spec/class if it's not also locatable by explicit
declaration or by the old T3 "lookup rules" which are a subset of the
4.0 rules.

In the wild it means that users that use these features will see odd
warnings and weird behviour in some cases. In most cases a handy
problem marker will be the clue to the fix. User beware. Not possible
to add a marker to a binary file in a jar so the core Libraries that
ship with Spindle 4T4 need to be 'clean'. This means a little more
work for us committers but I think it has a definite advantage - the
core stuff is easier to read and figure out (no magic).

Who knows, maybe having stricter core Libraries would result in a
teeeny weeny perfomance boost as I'm not convinced that a lot of this
magic stuff isn't costly.
--
These magic things are convenience items for end users IM and
Framework has, so far, gotten along fine without them. Contrib is 98%
there too. In fact there is only one component in contrib that is
problematic, D The fix for this is what 4.0.3 would contain
in addition to the any other bug fixes that have been backported.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very
backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that were
marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work or
not
but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in eclipse
for
so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since my
setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've been
using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so
far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or
others
but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will have
to be
a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the
additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should be
on
dtds)
--
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so
now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't
matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a
Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add
extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that
Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is
moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be
for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in
the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all
of
the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series
versions
if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make
sure
the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the
parts
of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new
Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

Because 4.1 should theoretically be getting released this week.

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Hmm, I'm not all that up on the website issues. Why would a 4.0.3
release be any different than the 4.0.2 release?

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Annotations have definitely not been added to anything other than the
annotation optional jar + demo application.

As for context/template/etc lookup paths and such, I haven't changed
anything in there so you should be a-ok in theory.

I'm not against a 4.0.3 release, just wondering what the ramifications
are
in terms of website content/etc. I had planned on releasing 4.1 using
maven2, as well as doing a lot of ducmentation updates to reflect all of
the
changes . (and cleanup some old items)

Should we be releasing the site like tomcat does as well? (Ie a link to
each
release # with its own set of docs)

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

DTD changes are fine and expected as are removed deprecations.
Annotations are not an issue really as using them in a core Library
shipped with 4.1 would make 4.1 compatible with JDK1.5 only.

Things that are annoying in general and a killer in the core Libraries
(this is thankfully a short list):

1) The metas for looking up page and component classes are not
recognized.

2) Specless pages and components are not supported, except in one case
- Specless pages in the T3 sense are supported.

3) Pages/Components declared or referenced with path like names are
ignored as far as the role they play in T4 w/respect to locating
classes and specs. It's not an error but Spindle won't find the page
or component spec/class if it's not also locatable by explicit
declaration or by the old T3 "lookup rules" which are a subset of the
4.0 rules.

In the wild it means that users that use these features will see odd
warnings and weird behviour in some cases. In most cases a handy
problem marker will be the clue to the fix. User beware. Not possible
to add a marker to a binary file in a jar so the core Libraries that
ship with Spindle 4T4 need to be 'clean'. This means a little more
work for us committers but I think it has a definite advantage - the
core stuff is easier to read and figure out (no magic).

Who knows, maybe having stricter core Libraries would result in a
teeeny weeny perfomance boost as I'm not convinced that a lot of this
magic stuff isn't costly.
--
These magic things are convenience items for end users IM and
Framework has, so far, gotten along fine without them. Contrib is 98%
there too. In fact there is only one component in contrib that is
problematic, D The fix for this is what 4.0.3 would contain
in addition to the any other bug fixes that have been backported.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very
backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that were
marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work or
not
but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in eclipse
for
so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since my
setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've been
using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so
far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or
others
but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will have
to be
a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the
additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should be
on
dtds)
--
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do so
now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but 4.1is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that doesn't
matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a
Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add
extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that
Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point is
moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will be
for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile 4.1in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a pain in
the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has all
of
the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series
versions
if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you make
sure
the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down the
parts
of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the new
Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff

+1 on that idea. Doesn't make sense to have releases competing with each
other over documentation.

6/4/06, James Carman <james (AT) carmanconsulting (DOT) comwrote:

I'd say that the website should follow what Tomcat does and make it easy
to
get to the docs for each release (3.0, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0).

Message
From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) com]
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:18 PM
To: Tapestry development
Subject: Re: Tapesrty 4.0.3 and SVN

Yes but that is an alpha release right? Are you suggesting that an
alpha release of 4.1 means that the website will shift focus to 4.1
over 4.0? Not sure if that should happen until 4.1 goes final.

Anywho, sounds like a topic for everyone needs to get thier two cents in
on.

:-)

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Because 4.1 should theoretically be getting released this week.

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Hmm, I'm not all that up on the website issues. Why would a 4.0.3
release be any different than the 4.0.2 release?

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Annotations have definitely not been added to anything other than
the
annotation optional jar + demo application.

As for context/template/etc lookup paths and such, I haven't changed
anything in there so you should be a-ok in theory.

I'm not against a 4.0.3 release, just wondering what the
ramifications
are
in terms of website content/etc. I had planned on releasing 4.1using
maven2, as well as doing a lot of ducmentation updates to reflect
all
of
the
changes . (and cleanup some old items)

Should we be releasing the site like tomcat does as well? (Ie a link
to
each
release # with its own set of docs)

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

DTD changes are fine and expected as are removed deprecations.
Annotations are not an issue really as using them in a core
Library
shipped with 4.1 would make 4.1 compatible with JDK1.5 only.

Things that are annoying in general and a killer in the core
Libraries
(this is thankfully a short list):

1) The metas for looking up page and component classes are not
recognized.

2) Specless pages and components are not supported, except in one
case
- Specless pages in the T3 sense are supported.

3) Pages/Components declared or referenced with path like names
are
ignored as far as the role they play in T4 w/respect to locating
classes and specs. It's not an error but Spindle won't find the
page
or component spec/class if it's not also locatable by explicit
declaration or by the old T3 "lookup rules" which are a subset of
the
4.0 rules.

In the wild it means that users that use these features will see
odd
warnings and weird behviour in some cases. In most cases a handy
problem marker will be the clue to the fix. User beware. Not
possible
to add a marker to a binary file in a jar so the core Libraries
that
ship with Spindle 4T4 need to be 'clean'. This means a little more
work for us committers but I think it has a definite advantage -
the
core stuff is easier to read and figure out (no magic).

Who knows, maybe having stricter core Libraries would result in a
teeeny weeny perfomance boost as I'm not convinced that a lot of
this
magic stuff isn't costly.
--
These magic things are convenience items for end users IM and
Framework has, so far, gotten along fine without them. Contrib is
98%
there too. In fact there is only one component in contrib that is
problematic, D The fix for this is what 4.0.3 would
contain
in addition to the any other bug fixes that have been backported.

Geoff

6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
Yeah 4.1 should just be 4.0 ++, hopefully with ++ meaning very
backwards
compatible.

I have removed (not all) a good portion of interfaces/etc that
were
marked
for removal in 4.1 though.

It's impossible for me to guess whether things will still work
or
not
but
you can always give it a try and see? I've been using 4.1 in
eclipse
for
so
long now my views on how easy it is are probably invalid since
my
setup
supports everything it wants already ;) I should note that I've
been
using
eclipse 3.2 almost exclusively, but everything is mostly easy so
far.

I'm not sure I follow you in regard to compatibility with 4.0 or
others
but
most of the new functionality is optionally used . There will
have
to be
a
new .page/.jwc dtd and .script dtd published to handle the
additional
changes. ( modified? Not sure what the versioning path should
be
on
dtds)
--
6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Thing is I have not even started looking at 4.1 yet and to do
so
now
would be a step backward for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but
4.1is
4.0 plus extra goodness right?

(I suspect the render story is different in 4.1 but that
doesn't
matter to
me)

I need to get the 4.0 stuff out the door so that the basic
functionality can be proven. Can't do that until there is a
Contrib
that Spindle 4T4 can process. Thus, 4.0.3 is not optional for
me.
After that, and added annotation support, I can modify to add
extra
4.1 goodness.

Although, if 4.1 mandates the use of some T4 "features" that
Spindle
4T4 can't handle , in a Library *shipped* wth 4.1, then point
is
moot
because I won't be porting anyways. In this case support will
be
for
4.0 only until 5.0 comes out.

BTW how much jumping around and tweaking is needed to compile
4.1in
Eclipse out of the (svn) box? The build story for 4.0 is a
pain
in
the
ass.

Geoff
--
6/4/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jkuhnert (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
There is a 4.0 branch, but the current tapestry4 trunk has
all
of
the
4.1changes in it.

I think it is preferrable to not release anymore 4.0 series
versions
if
we
can get away with it, but if it ~has~ to be done can you
make
sure
the
changes get into trunk as well?

6/4/06, Geoff Longman <glongman (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Where is 4.0.3 in the repo? I've finally narrowsed down
the
parts
of
Contrib that need to be tweaked to be passed through the
new
Spindle
4T4 core without error.

BTW is looks like only 3 changes.

Geoff