Yay! Cyrille has added a cool smudge paintop to Krita 1.6. course, that
also means we'll need a new icon for in the paintop combobox Something
with a smudging finger or so. Anyway, Ronan, could you whip out your tools
and come up with something?

What do you think?
I vote for b :)

Tuesday 05 December 2006 18:13, Cyrille Berger wrote:
What do you think?
I vote for b :)
me too

Tuesday 05 December 2006 21:06, Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Hi guys (and girls?),

I just tried the new Krita and it is still very buggy
--
But first the good news; I tried the Transform Tool with my wacom and it
works well now! Great job!

And now the bad ones; when I use the transform tool with a selection, I
end up with a very nasty bug. I already found a bug report

I dont want to be hard or discouraging but that kind of bugs should be
only in beta release not in 1.6.1

Yeah, I discovered that today. I'm not sure whether it has been there all
along or is a regression. That's one thing we really and truly lack:
regression tests. Testing all (and I mean _all_ features before a release.
But I see from the bug reports that Casper knows what's wrong already, maybe
he can fix it for 1.6.2

I also have to say that I find the selection system not very convenient.
When I work with a selection, I want to have a clear view of my image in
the same time. I mean the whole image.
The semi transparent mauve color really doesn't help here. It's a cool
thing to have when I work on my selection area but not when I work with
my selection (i.e. when using the transform tool or brush).
The user should be able to switch between dotted lines (I don't think
anyone has found a better system right now) and the semi mauve
transparent color (maybe without the buggy red line).

Yes I think we'll have to bite the bullet and come up with a marching ants
system, too. Even though Qt4 has made that a lot more difficult for us :-(

I also didn't find an easy way to deselect. a complex shortcut
combo or going through the menu. An easier shortcut and a deselect tool,
even if it seems stupid, can be a good stuff to have in terms of
usability and work speed.

That's a bit of a problem: ctrl-shift-a is a kde standard shortcut for
deselect. It's even wider: gimp has the same shortcut. I cannot right now
test Photoshop or Corel Painter. What do other graphics apps do to make it
easier to deselect?

Krita has a really great design and I think it's a sexy project. I
really would like to use it daily but all those bugs on basic tools
prevent me to do so.

If you have the energy, don't hesitate to tell us about each and every bug --
the mailing list is okay for that, no need to fight with bugzilla!

Wednesday 06 December 2006 07:36, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
I also didn't find an easy way to deselect. a complex shortcut
combo or going through the menu. An easier shortcut and a deselect tool,
even if it seems stupid, can be a good stuff to have in terms of
usability and work speed.

That's a bit of a problem: ctrl-shift-a is a kde standard shortcut for
deselect. It's even wider: gimp has the same shortcut. I cannot right now
test Photoshop or Corel Painter. What do other graphics apps do to make it
easier to deselect?

Paint (MS or Kolour-): Esc or clicking elsewhere

Tuesday 05 December 2006 23:38, Ronan Zeegers wrote:
it's here:

I will try to keep it up to date and make an announcement every times
I'm putting something new on it. It's faster than bugzilla. I'll will go
back to bugzilla when Krita will be a bit more "bug free".

Maybe we should paint a blue border around the whole image canvas when
everything is selected?

Tuesday 05 December 2006 23:12, Ronan Zeegers wrote:

The new Qt Arthur thing do not help here?

the contrary: that is making marching ants a lot more difficult because it
removed the XR paint operator.

I think it's Ctrl+D in photoshop or click (without drag) with a
selection tool on an area outside of the selection. But this last
behaviour is not really the way to go.
A second shortcut (with only 2 buttons) and/or a new bouton/tool to
unselect in the toolbox are the best ideas I have for now.

Would Clarence's suggestion of using the escape key fit the bill? Not sure
whether this is actually feasible, since deselect is kde-wide standard
action. If you go to Keyboard Shortcuts in kcontrol, choose the Application
Shortcuts tab, you can add Escape as an alternae shortcut (or ctrl-D).

! It's true that bugzilla is not that fastest tool to use. But some
bugs of usability improvement on the mailing list where not taken in
consideration.

ie a mail write the 20 sept 2006:
>I've been thinking with a friend of mine (http://www.design-hero.com/)
>about the current arrangement of the icons. And I think it could be
>improved.
>
>Here is my rearrangement proposal of the icons:
>
>
>I have also removed the separator at the bottom of the Toolbar. Usually
>a separator separate from something.
>
>btw, there is a little bug with the vertical size of the magnifying
>glass icon:
>
>
>Ronan.

Moet ik naar kijken, maar ik ben nu op m'n werk.

A wiki with all the bugs and behaviour problems can maybe do the job.
I'm not sure what's the best solution.

A wiki page on wiki.koffice.org is easy enough to add.

The new Qt Arthur thing do not help here?
the contrary: that is making marching ants a lot more difficult because
it removed the XR paint operator.
I don't know where you got that idea, but from
#CompositionMode-enum I still see
the XR composite mode.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 11:13, Cyrille Berger wrote:
The new Qt Arthur thing do not help here?

the contrary: that is making marching ants a lot more difficult
because it removed the XR paint operator.

I don't know where you got that idea, but from
#CompositionMode-enum I still see
the XR composite mode.

Which says:

The source, which alpha is reduced with the inverse of the destination alpha,
is merged with the destination, which alpha is reduced by the inverse of the
source alpha. CompositionMode_Xor is not the same as the bitwise Xor.

And I have always understood that bitwise xor is what we needed

Tuesday 05 December 2006 23:12, Ronan Zeegers wrote:

! It's true that bugzilla is not that fastest tool to use. But some
bugs of usability improvement on the mailing list where not take in
consideration.

Yes. Things may fall through the cracks. That doesn't mean suggestions aren't
appreciated -- just that we're human.

ie a mail write the 20 sept 2006:
>I've been thinking with a friend of mine (http://www.design-hero.com/)
>about the current arrangement of the icons. And I think it could be
>improved.
>
>Here is my rearrangement proposal of the icons:
>

Not sure why that wasn't done -- at that time I wasn't working on 1.6 myself,
so that's something to ask Cyrille. I think it can be done in 1.6, because
there is provision to order tools by priority per group, but I'm not sure how
well it works.

>I have also removed the separator at the bottom of the Toolbar. Usually
>a separator separate from something.

Fixed!

>btw, there is a little bug with the vertical size of the magnifying
>glass icon:
>

Er Didn't you paint the icons? :-) I'll commit a fixed one as soon as I
have it.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:18, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

Not sure why that wasn't done -- at that time I wasn't working on 1.6
myself, so that's something to ask Cyrille. I think it can be done in 1.6,
because there is provision to order tools by priority per group, but I'm
not sure how well it works.

Ah, I see: most of it _is_ done. The selection tools for instance. I'll see
about the rest.

Which says:

The source, which alpha is reduced with the inverse of the destination
alpha, is merged with the destination, which alpha is reduced by the
inverse of the source alpha. CompositionMode_Xor is not the same as the
bitwise Xor.

And I have always understood that bitwise xor is what we needed
oh right, on the other, the gimp marching ants doesn't use xor. I can't test
on photoshop right now but I don't remember it to use xor either.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:28, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:18, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
Not sure why that wasn't done -- at that time I wasn't working on 1.6
myself, so that's something to ask Cyrille. I think it can be done in
1.6, because there is provision to order tools by priority per group, but
I'm not sure how well it works.

Ah, I see: most of it _is_ done. The selection tools for instance. I'll see
about the rest.
well we didn't because we discussed it and decided not to.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:18, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
ie a mail write the 20 sept 2006:
>I've been thinking with a friend of mine (http://www.design-hero.com/)
>about the current arrangement of the icons. And I think it could be
>improved.
>
>Here is my rearrangement proposal of the icons:
>
>
Not sure why that wasn't done -- at that time I wasn't working on 1.6
myself, so that's something to ask Cyrille. I think it can be done in 1.6,
because there is provision to order tools by priority per group, but I'm
not sure how well it works.

if I remember correctly, the tool order were changed, but from the discution
there were some disagreement with ronan's suggestion, and an other grouping
was choosen.

From my memory:
For instnace the crop tool was put in the layer/manipulation category because
the pan, zoom and grids tools doesn't affect the image but the canvas. While
crop is a tool that have a direct effect on the layer, not to mention that
crop can be applied to tool.

As for drawing tools, it's very questionnable if the polygon tool and the
polyline tool should be seperated or not. I mean they are very similar. I
honestly don't know. If someone has any opinion on this ?

The question I am asking myself is why the the fill, gradient, text and picker
tool aren't above the layer/manipulation ones, I think to remember that it
was done other wise before.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:40, Cyrille Berger wrote:

oh right, on the other, the gimp marching ants doesn't use xor. I can't
test on photoshop right now but I don't remember it to use xor either.

Ah, I thought it did -- just like our brush outline uses xor. I must have been
confused then. Unfortunately, I still have no clue how to code marching ants.
But it's necessary to have both.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:44, Casper Boemann wrote:
Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:28, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:18, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
Not sure why that wasn't done -- at that time I wasn't working on 1.6
myself, so that's something to ask Cyrille. I think it can be done in
1.6, because there is provision to order tools by priority per group,
but I'm not sure how well it works.

Ah, I see: most of it _is_ done. The selection tools for instance. I'll
see about the rest.

well we didn't because we discussed it and decided not to.

Ah, I didn't remember that either.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 13:49, Cyrille Berger wrote:
As for drawing tools, it's very questionnable if the polygon tool and the
polyline tool should be seperated or not. I mean they are very similar. I
honestly don't know. If someone has any opinion on this ?

thing that I would like a lot is the freehand and the curve tool in the
top two positions. Polgyon and polyline are different tools because it's
otherwise very confusing to discover how to end a shape with or without
closing it.

The question I am asking myself is why the the fill, gradient, text and
picker tool aren't above the layer/manipulation ones, I think to remember
that it was done other wise before.

Good point.

Wednesday 06 December 2006 17:10, Ronan Zeegers wrote:
Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
Tuesday 05 December 2006 23:38, Ronan Zeegers wrote:
>it's here:
>
>>
>I will try to keep it up to date and make an announcement every times
>I'm putting something new on it. It's faster than bugzilla. I'll will go
>back to bugzilla when Krita will be a bit more "bug free".
>
Maybe we should paint a blue border around the whole image canvas when
everything is selected?

For now, I think it's the best idea. Maybe with the same red as the
selection. But for the futur, the marching ants like in the gimp is a
better solution.
I disagree

with marching ants you cannot see if somethin is partially selected