7/23/06, George Simpson <gasjr4wd (AT) mac (DOT) comwrote:
YU can unsubscribe yourself. No one else can.
(sure wish people would read the headers!)
--
List-Subscribe: <mailto:suse-security-subscribe (AT) suse (DOT) com>
List-Unsubscribe: <
sharpjoe=charter.net (AT) suse (DOT) com>
List-Help: <mailto:suse-security-help (AT) suse (DOT) com>

Isn't it obvious that these instructions should be in the message body instead?

Saying "read the headers" is obviously an approach that does not work.

p

I agree with you; it's difficult to unsubscribe to any of the groups the way
they're setup.

Alan S. House
Consultant

Voice: 972-834-3091
Email: URL
Web: URL

MAHR TECHNLGY GRUP
P. Box 1096
Frisco, Texas 75034

Consulting, custom programming, and network solutions for your business.

Message
From: Peter Van Lone [mailto:petervl (AT) gmail (DOT) com]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:34 AM
To: URL
Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [suse-security] Please cancel my e-mails

7/23/06, George Simpson <gasjr4wd (AT) mac (DOT) comwrote:
YU can unsubscribe yourself. No one else can.
(sure wish people would read the headers!)
--
List-Subscribe: <mailto:suse-security-subscribe (AT) suse (DOT) com>
List-Unsubscribe: <
sharpjoe=charter.net (AT) suse (DOT) com>
List-Help: <mailto:suse-security-help (AT) suse (DOT) com>

Isn't it obvious that these instructions should be in the message body
instead?

Saying "read the headers" is obviously an approach that does not work.

p

PGP SIGNED MESSAGE
Hash: SHA1

Hey guys, try a little harder, most lists are setup the same way, but
even if you don't check the header, visit the mailing list page on the
web site associated with the list (that means RTFM), there are
instructions there. I can't see how you would expect to unsubscribe by
sending a message to the list!
- --
Gary Baribault
CISSP, RHCE, CCNP, MCSE
Consultant en informatique / Computer security consultant

GPG Key: 0xEF3EBD1C
GPG Fingerprint: 5B1F 899B 4A7C A586 8388 6AFD 796B E68D EF3E 8D1C

Alan S. House wrote:
I agree with you; it's difficult to unsubscribe to any of the groups the way
they're setup.

Alan S. House
Consultant

Voice: 972-834-3091
Email: URL
Web: URL

MAHR TECHNLGY GRUP
P. Box 1096
Frisco, Texas 75034

Consulting, custom programming, and network solutions for your business.

Message
From: Peter Van Lone [mailto:petervl (AT) gmail (DOT) com]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:34 AM
To: URL
Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [suse-security] Please cancel my e-mails

7/23/06, George Simpson <gasjr4wd (AT) mac (DOT) comwrote:
>YU can unsubscribe yourself. No one else can.
>(sure wish people would read the headers!)
>>
>>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:suse-security-subscribe (AT) suse (DOT) com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <
>sharpjoe=charter.net (AT) suse (DOT) com>
>List-Help: <mailto:suse-security-help (AT) suse (DOT) com>

Isn't it obvious that these instructions should be in the message body
instead?

Saying "read the headers" is obviously an approach that does not work.

p

Peter Van Lone wrote:
7/23/06, George Simpson <gasjr4wd (AT) mac (DOT) comwrote:
>YU can unsubscribe yourself. No one else can.
>(sure wish people would read the headers!)
>>
>>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:suse-security-subscribe (AT) suse (DOT) com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <
>sharpjoe=charter.net (AT) suse (DOT) com>
>List-Help: <mailto:suse-security-help (AT) suse (DOT) com>

Isn't it obvious that these instructions should be in the message body
instead?

Saying "read the headers" is obviously an approach that does not work.

Placing this info in the body is a waste of space. Further, when folks
subscribe, they are sent a message on how to unsubscribe. If they don't
keep track of that, it's not the list fault, and it's not the rest of
the subscribers fault. Yet that is who pays for the wasted bandwidth.

7/23/06, Geoffrey <esoteric (AT) 3times25 (DOT) netwrote:

Placing this info in the body is a waste of space.

that's absurd. It takes exactly no more nor less space/bandwidth to
move the unsubsribe instructions to the message body.

>Further, when folks
subscribe, they are sent a message on how to unsubscribe. If they don't
keep track of that, it's not the list fault, and it's not the rest of
the subscribers fault. Yet that is who pays for the wasted bandwidth.

it's not a question of "whose fault" -- rather one of effectiveness.

peter

Peter Van Lone wrote:
7/23/06, Geoffrey <esoteric (AT) 3times25 (DOT) netwrote:
>Placing this info in the body is a waste of space.
that's absurd. It takes exactly no more nor less space/bandwidth to
move the unsubsribe instructions to the message body.
Splitting hairs here it takes approximately the same amount of space
on disk to put it in headers or in the body. However, it takes up more
screen space, and thus more human attention span, to put it in the body.

But not much more, so it really doesn't matter.

it's not a question of "whose fault" -- rather one of effectiveness.
the other hand, I also don't believe that putting the instructions in
message footers (in the body) would actually increase effectiveness.
People who just spam the list without reading the instructions are just
as unlikely to read the message footers.

Crispin

7/23/06, Crispin Cowan <crispin (AT) novell (DOT) comwrote:
<snip>
the other hand, I also don't believe that putting the instructions in
message footers (in the body) would actually increase effectiveness.
People who just spam the list without reading the instructions are just
as unlikely to read the message footers.

you could be right, though I do know that many people use applications
that don't make finding the header easy or obvious. And these folks
may not really know how to do it. So, sending an email is the choice
they make.

I'm sorry I've taken up this much bandwidth with this issue but I
do think sometimes that "how we have always done it" does not speak to
the current need.

Peter

Alan S. House wrote:
I agree with you; it's difficult to unsubscribe to any of the groups the way
they're setup.

It's only difficult if you don't want to read.
The irony being that the unsubscribe-wish comes from someone who has an
email-address of "sharpjoe" - this is a real "classic" :-)

BTW: these "please unsubscribe me" mails also appear in other
mailing-lists, including the vpopmail-lists, where people supposedly
know what they are doing (shudder).

If you include "please click on this link to unsubcribe"-snippets in the
mails, they will be marked as spam.

solution is to make it more difficult to subscribe to the list ;-)

cheers,
Rainer

Peter Van Lone wrote:
7/23/06, Geoffrey <esoteric (AT) 3times25 (DOT) netwrote:

>Placing this info in the body is a waste of space.

that's absurd. It takes exactly no more nor less space/bandwidth to
move the unsubsribe instructions to the message body.

Wrong, I don't have to view the headers. If you put it in the body, it
increases the size of the viewable message. I expect people to use
their head for something other then a hat rack. People need to pay
attention to the information they are given when they subscribe to the list.

Absurdity is to inconvenience all list members for the sake of a handful
of idiots I'm surprised were able to find their way to the list to start
with.

I'm done with this thread.

7/23/06, George A. Simpson, Jr. <gasjr4wd (AT) mac (DOT) comwrote:
Bullsh*t!

People need to take responsibility for what they do. It's the fault of
the person that signed up.

good god -- I am surely glad that I don't have these pent-up wells of
anger and frustration.

I am taking the perspective here of the service provider. If I offer a
service or software that is consistently mis-understood, it is my job,
from my perspective, to fix it. There are still other perspectives,
and certainly as a "regular guy" I'm going to have some fun poking fun
of idiocy when I see it. It's great bar-time buffoonery.

But that is not how a service provider should think. And, being that
SUSE is a community, and we are it, we are the service provider.

That's just my perspective. I want "us" to be as effective as can be.

Then, there is the whole "shoulds and oughts" thing. I have a hard
enough time keeping up with my own sense of what I "should and ought"
to be doing. I don't have time or energy to waste on expecting much
from a stranger.

P

If the person sighed up, they should know how to un - signup.
I"m on three or four of the suse lists and at least once a week some
numb-nut sends in one saying "cancel me". Then this long thread starts
of the same sh*t, every week. I didn't sign up just to enter in a
conversation on how to unsubscribe to a list and it's the list mom's
fault It's not. It's the person who can't follow directions

It would be effective if people read the instructions when they signed
up and/or the headers. Then again, that would require some thought on
the persons behalf. No, it makes more sense to bother the rest of us
with something we can't help them with anyway.

I mean, it's not like this isn't brought up on most (if not all - or
so it seems) of the suse lists about every *&^% week. Not to mention on
some lists it happens every week like clock work. Didn't they get the
list last week when we said all the same sh*t?
If you are smart enough to sign up, you should be smart enough to
cancel it. Just follow the directions. You know, the same directions
you got when you signed up?

Maybe we should have a competency test for those who want to sign up?
Someone else thought of that on another list. I'm starting to like the
idea. other lists the person sends threats back to the list. What a
total dumb a
>
>
>

*You know - actually I would think differently if they sent a email and
said, "hey guys, I know the first email said how to cancel this thing,
but I don't remember how. Can someone please remind me?"
That would be different. That I would maybe understand.

pissed off, tired and aggravated,
George
--

Sun, Jul 23, 2006 at 09:56:00AM -0500, URL wrote:
You are unsubscribed already (at least with URL).
Ciao, Marcus

Sun, 23 Jul 2006, Peter Van Lone wrote:

[]
Isn't it obvious that these instructions should be in the message body
instead?

Honestly I would not like to be bothered by informations which I need
once in the lifecycle of a mailing list on my system!

Saying "read the headers" is obviously an approach that does not work.

Some people can't even deal with the rule that you usually get moved if
you turn the key in a car. Do you think that the manufacturers should
state this somewhere in the car and enshure that you've read it before
the engines start?

BTW: Even often as userunfriendly blamed mail/news readers like pine
make these informations available to and even _usable_ for you without
the need to read the headers.

Regards
Henning Hucke