Hi all!
I had an idea last night for an interface. Is this the right place to post
something like that?
Regards,
Sims

This is my first time to post something to a KDE mailing list. So I wanted to
make sure this was the right place.

The idea is a of "mouse snapping." You know how we have snapping in layout and
graphic software? Well, I thought of applying that concept to the entire
desktop. It would be sort of like a "mouse mode" - setting you can turn on
and tweak.
- Everything that you can click on, the mouse will "snap" to.
- Text areas could snap the mouse cursor in between the characters.
- There can be a threshold of how slow the mouse must be moving for it
to "snap."
- Areas like the desktop or within certain graphics apps, "mouse snapping" can
be disabled.

There is more to discuss and test on this as far as usability is concerned.
Though I think it would speed up mouse usage and make it akin to a keyboard.
I had this idea when using some music software the other day. It is very
annoying to have to move the mouse just millimeters and to "aim" for small
buttons over and over again. Many people may find it useless and perhaps even
annoying, though I think it may have it's place and may become popular among
disabled people and those using touch pads or those doing repetitive mouse
movements.

What do you all think about it?

Best regards,

Sims

PS
Sorry if my English is incorrect. I am not so good with languages.

Tuesday 19 September 2006 02:05, Sims wrote:
The idea is a of "mouse snapping." You know how we have snapping in layout
and graphic software? Well, I thought of applying that concept to the
entire desktop. It would be sort of like a "mouse mode" - setting you can
turn on and tweak.

Please read up on previous research and application of "mouse snapping". In
general it is considered not a good thing (to put it nicely) for various
reasons, but most in particular because it takes control away from the user.

That is not to say there *may not* be appropriate applications of this
interaction behavior, but until I see significant empirical research that
states otherwise, I doubt it will have much acceptance once it comes down to
debate and commit.

"Mouse snapping" has been discussed on this list several times, please read
the archives for more information why this idea is rejected.

Thanks,

~ Celeste

Tuesday 19 September 2006 06:09, David Roberts wrote:
Interesting idea.

- Areas like the desktop or within certain graphics apps, "mouse
snapping" can be disabled.

Perhaps if it was disabled by default, and was only enabled when a certain
key combination is held down, and disabled when released. You would have to
be careful not to snap the cursor when the user doesn't want it to be
snapped, as this could get very frustrating.

If not wrong it was windows NT; there was an option that the mouse pointer
could jump on new windows to the focus. That was very very useful since any
dialog came up the pointer was just right there where it should be, on the
button, or almost near to it when I wanted to click another button. I miss
this feature very much.

Tuesday 19 September 2006 18:09, David Roberts wrote:
Perhaps if it was disabled by default, and was only enabled when a certain
key combination is held down, and disabled when released. You would have to
be careful not to snap the cursor when the user doesn't want it to be
snapped, as this could get very frustrating.

Yes, disabled by default. It would probably annoy those how have no idea what
it is. Also, there can be a snap proximity.

I had this idea when using some music software the other day. It is very
annoying to have to move the mouse just millimeters and to "aim" for
small buttons over and over again.

If you are going to be repetitively using certain tasks in an app, wouldn't
it be easier to learn the shortcut keys? Forgive me if I've gotten the
wrong idea.

I guess so. For many things this is the way to go. However, I use a laptop a
lot. In general the touch pad or what ever pointing device is not very
accurate on a laptop. I think one could work much faster if the mouse would
move to places that could be clicked. It would be obvious where it is focused
on.

Though I think it would speed up mouse usage and make it akin to a
keyboard.

The mouse is a very intuitive tool, and I like the idea of also making it
more efficient.

You could almost use it with your eyes half closed then. Sort of like you do
when using a keyboard. You know and feel the key is there. You can't feel the
button is there with a mouse. This would sort of have that effect.

Tuesday 19 September 2006 21:20, Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:
Tuesday 19 September 2006 02:05, Sims wrote:
The idea is a of "mouse snapping." You know how we have snapping in
layout and graphic software? Well, I thought of applying that concept to
the entire desktop. It would be sort of like a "mouse mode" - setting you
can turn on and tweak.

Please read up on previous research and application of "mouse snapping".
In general it is considered not a good thing (to put it nicely) for various
reasons, but most in particular because it takes control away from the
user.

Yes. I do understand that. I think if it was off by deafult it would be quite
harmless.

Perhaps it may be a better idea for an audio application to have this kind of
feature. There are so many things like turning knobs that I hate to do with
the mouse. I thought it was a nice idea. So I thought of suggesting it to my
favorite desktop developers first. It would make KDE a pleasure to use.
Though I understand if it's already been rejected be the "experts."

It would be sad if someone else does it and KDE just ends up copying it. If
it's off by default, I don't see the problem other than it taking a bit of
coding.

That is not to say there *may not* be appropriate applications of this
interaction behavior, but until I see significant empirical research that
states otherwise, I doubt it will have much acceptance once it comes down
to debate and commit.

I guess I am clumsy. I would like it if the mouse moved onto clickable areas
easier, rather than me having to fiddle my mouse around. Have you used a
trackball or touchpad recently?

"Mouse snapping" has been discussed on this list several times, please read
the archives for more information why this idea is rejected.

Where can I access the archives? I would like to see the reasons it has been
rejected.

Tuesday 19 September 2006 11:51, Sims wrote:
Yes. I do understand that. I think if it was off by deafult it would be
quite harmless.

Unless there is benefit to it, there is not reason to fill KDE with
meaningless extras and bloat the environment. There are methods to add
plugins and so on, perhaps you can go that route, however I do not see it in
the future of default installation unless something has significantly changes
from the last time this was discussed.

Perhaps it may be a better idea for an audio application to have this kind
of feature. There are so many things like turning knobs that I hate to do
with the mouse. I thought it was a nice idea. So I thought of suggesting it
to my favorite desktop developers first. It would make KDE a pleasure to
use. Though I understand if it's already been rejected be the "experts."

Perhaps the issue is that there are knobs or other design flaws and not the
fact that your mouse cannot get to the button you want quickly and
accurately.

It would be sad if someone else does it and KDE just ends up copying it. If

why? it wont get implemented just because someone else does it. it will get
implemented because there will be significant evidence to its benefits.

That is not to say there *may not* be appropriate applications of this
interaction behavior, but until I see significant empirical research that
states otherwise, I doubt it will have much acceptance once it comes down
to debate and commit.

I guess I am clumsy. I would like it if the mouse moved onto clickable
areas easier, rather than me having to fiddle my mouse around. Have you
used a trackball or touchpad recently?

Yes of course, I use a touchpad all the time. However I dont think you
understand the interaction implications a snapping mouse would have in such
an environment. In going from point A to B over an interactive environment,
the path would no longer be a controlled line drawn by the user, but a
constant path of correction as the mouse is taken out of the users control
and the user must regain that control and continue on their path.

In many cases, even though complex, keyboard navigation is far superior
because the user is always in control.

"Mouse snapping" has been discussed on this list several times, please
read the archives for more information why this idea is rejected.

Where can I access the archives? I would like to see the reasons it has
been rejected.

There is a link to the archives at the bottom of every kde-usability mail.

~ Celeste

Wednesday 20 September 2006 01:38, Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:
Perhaps the issue is that there are knobs or other design flaws and not the
fact that your mouse cannot get to the button you want quickly and
accurately.

If you want to fit many controls on the screen, it seems they have to be
smaller in size. Smaller controls are more difficult to aim for.

Yes of course, I use a touchpad all the time. However I dont think you
understand the interaction implications a snapping mouse would have in such
an environment. In going from point A to B over an interactive
environment, the path would no longer be a controlled line drawn by the
user, but a constant path of correction as the mouse is taken out of the
users control and the user must regain that control and continue on their
path.

I guess you do not entirely understand what I am talking about. I did mention
a speed and proximity threshold.

"Mouse snapping" has been discussed on this list several times, please
read the archives for more information why this idea is rejected.

Where can I access the archives? I would like to see the reasons it has
been rejected.

There is a link to the archives at the bottom of every kde-usability mail.

K, I have searched the archives. I must be pretty dense. Because I can't seem
to find anything about this idea. To be more specific:
I browsed to
I searched for "snap."
I searched for "mouse."
I searched for "mouse snapping."
I searched through your posts, Celeste Lyn Paul.
I'm probably a total n00b on this one. I can't seem to find anything or
haven't spent hours doing so.

Please point me to something that shows that this is a useless and ridiculous
idea.

Sorry to press on with this issue. I would have not done so, had I found the
posts in archives you mention.

I have better defined the mouse snapping idea as this:

* The mouse cursor "snaps" to anything you can click on.
* In text areas, in text areas it snaps in between characters.
* There are settings for speed and proximity thresholds.
* Certain areas have snapping disabled. For example, the layout area of some
desktop publishing software.

what about this:

Use the above idea to make pseudo mouse cursor or highlight that receives the
clicks. The mouse can still move in it's normal way. That way the pseudo
mouse cursor/highligh will move and snap to the nearest right clickable
point. Left clicks could still perhaps not to the the pseudo
cursor/highlight.

Perhaps a plug-in would be the right way to go about making this. Then if it
becomes popular, it could be integrated. I am merely throwing this out to see
if others will use it or if I should suggest it to the makers of my favorite
audio production software.

Tuesday 19 September 2006 19:18, JoaoBR wrote:
If not wrong it was windows NT; there was an option that the mouse pointer
could jump on new windows to the focus. That was very very useful since any
dialog came up the pointer was just right there where it should be, on the
button, or almost near to it when I wanted to click another button. I miss
this feature very much.

I thought you may want to try this.

Wednesday 20 September 2006 14:50, David Roberts wrote:
I had this idea when using some music software the other day.
Just out of curiosity, what app is this?
Ableton Live. Yes, I know. It's not SS.
I use KDE/linux on my laptop. The BSDs on my servers. Windows in my studio.

Wednesday 20 September 2006 08:11, Sims wrote:

Use the above idea to make pseudo mouse cursor or highlight that receives
the clicks. The mouse can still move in it's normal way. That way the
pseudo mouse cursor/highligh will move and snap to the nearest right
clickable point. Left clicks could still perhaps not to the the pseudo
cursor/highlight.

Sorry, I am kind of dyslexic sometimes. I meant that the other way around.
Left clicks get passed to the pseudo cursor and right clicks get bypassed.
That way you can still click on a the tool bar to customise it, for example.