It appears that a great deal of this list doesn't remember
PHC/Project Mayhem and is dismissing them as trolls like n3td3v, or
other script kiddies that seem to populate this list nowaday. Let
me refresh the memories of those who don't remember:
They were allegedly responsible for several high profile
compromises of "respected" security profiteers Ryan Russel, Theo De
Raddt (BSD), Christopher Abad and others.
,1284,54400,00.html?tw=wn_story_r
elated
There is a deep-seeded underground movement that agrees
wholeheartedly with the sentiment echoed by PHC and other anti-sec
groups worldwide.
With far too many companies making far too much money off of
independant non-profit research and the blood, sweat and tears of
real "hackers", it is only rational that the security market be
flooded with clueless drones waiving GIAC and CISSP certifications
while some of the best minds in the world are alienated from an
industry that rewards mediocrity and outright thievery.
If you think the reason we haven't been seeing near the level of
remote root exploit code on the lists is because secure coding
practices as a whole have improved exponentially over the last few
years, you are badly mistaken. People are sitting on their code and
targeting those who just don't get _it_.
Before you go discounting Project Mayhem as list dribble just
remember;
" the people you are after are the people you depend on. We
configure your MM servers, run your cat-6, we set up your IDS
sensor nodes. We test and design your perimeters, we guard you
while you sleep. Do not **** with us".
Some retro links regarding project mayhem and anti-sec:
A mirror of the original PHC site:
http://www.eurocompton.net/~bhb/phrack/
A mirror of an anti-sec journal (blackhatbloc):
http://www.eurocompton.net/~bhb/
el8 magazine:
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Priceless.

11/26/05, memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) ai <memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) aiwrote:
--
It appears that a great deal of this list doesn't remember
PHC/Project Mayhem and is dismissing them as trolls like n3td3v, or
other script kiddies that seem to populate this list nowaday. Let
me refresh the memories of those who don't remember:

They were allegedly responsible for several high profile
compromises of "respected" security profiteers Ryan Russel, Theo De
Raddt (BSD), Christopher Abad and others.
,1284,54400,00.html?tw=wn_story_r
elated

There is a deep-seeded underground movement that agrees
wholeheartedly with the sentiment echoed by PHC and other anti-sec
groups worldwide.

With far too many companies making far too much money off of
independant non-profit research and the blood, sweat and tears of
real "hackers", it is only rational that the security market be
flooded with clueless drones waiving GIAC and CISSP certifications
while some of the best minds in the world are alienated from an
industry that rewards mediocrity and outright thievery.

If you think the reason we haven't been seeing near the level of
remote root exploit code on the lists is because secure coding
practices as a whole have improved exponentially over the last few
years, you are badly mistaken. People are sitting on their code and
targeting those who just don't get _it_.

Before you go discounting Project Mayhem as list dribble just
remember;

" the people you are after are the people you depend on. We
configure your MM servers, run your cat-6, we set up your IDS
sensor nodes. We test and design your perimeters, we guard you
while you sleep. Do not **** with us".
--
Some retro links regarding project mayhem and anti-sec:

A mirror of the original PHC site:
http://www.eurocompton.net/~bhb/phrack/

A mirror of an anti-sec journal (blackhatbloc):

http://www.eurocompton.net/~bhb/

el8 magazine:


>
>
>
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account
required

Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

I have never hacked a
computer, I am not a hacker. I have never used anyone elses exploit to
hack a computer, I am not a script kid. I read news sites, mailing
lists and am friends of hackers, employees of vendors and script kids.
I am a researcher of security in that context. I know a lot of people
call themselves security researchers who are actually hackers, but i'm
a security researcher, as in I read security news and keep up with
what hackers are up to and report stuff to employees of vendors.

I run my own intelligence service and report **** to vendors. Time to
get educated and stop throwing titles around based on your misinformed
opinion based on someone you know nothing about.

11/26/05, memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) ai <memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) aiwrote:
n3td3v, or other script kiddies that seem to populate this list nowaday.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 05:08:37PM +0000, n3td3v wrote:

<snip>

I run my own intelligence service and report **** to vendors. Time to
get educated and stop throwing titles around based on your misinformed
opinion based on someone you know nothing about.

Enlighten us to your intelligence service and who you are.

Most of us don't hide behind a name.

Scott

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

n3td3v wrote:
I have never hacked a
computer, I am not a hacker. I have never used anyone elses exploit to
hack a computer, I am not a script kid. I read news sites, mailing
lists and am friends of hackers, employees of vendors and script kids.
I am a researcher of security in that context. I know a lot of people
call themselves security researchers who are actually hackers, but i'm
a security researcher, as in I read security news and keep up with
what hackers are up to and report stuff to employees of vendors.

I run my own intelligence service and report **** to vendors. Time to
get educated and stop throwing titles around based on your misinformed
opinion based on someone you know nothing about.

11/26/05, memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) ai <memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) aiwrote:
n3td3v, or other script kiddies that seem to populate this list nowaday.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

yep, and I'm just a young little kid that likes to keep in touch with
the latest security happenings.

now, can't you post correctly in a mailing list?
I mean come on, a computer guru
not knowing about that?

anyway, hi list!

Kyle

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

And yet you quoted netdev's entire email for no good reason
whatsoeveranother breach of supposed netiquette.

Top vs. bottom posting is a bunch of crap. With 20 years experience in
computing I have yet to see consensus on this issueregardless of
wikipedia definition.

I subscribe to numerous mail lists/etc. and far prefer top postsless
scrolling to bottom too see what is being said. If people snipped orig
post than bottom posting would <possiblybe preferrablebut quite
often this isn't the caseand very often extremely verbose crap like
images/etc. (dammit' mom get with the program) is often left in as well.

mike klein

Kyle Lutze wrote:
now, can't you post correctly in a mailing list?
I mean come on, a computer
guru not knowing about that?

anyway, hi list!

Kyle

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

yeah, that was a slight accident, the first one I composed only went to
him since I didn't hit reply-all, and didn't fully edit the second one. :/

ok, so I'm a bit of a hypocrite sometimes too. Also, I didn't mean to
say wikipedia's definition was a way to go, I was just using that to
show my reason without having to put it all in

Kyle

Mike Klein wrote:
And yet you quoted netdev's entire email for no good reason
whatsoeveranother breach of supposed netiquette.

Top vs. bottom posting is a bunch of crap. With 20 years experience in
computing I have yet to see consensus on this issueregardless of
wikipedia definition.

I subscribe to numerous mail lists/etc. and far prefer top postsless
scrolling to bottom too see what is being said. If people snipped orig
post than bottom posting would <possiblybe preferrablebut quite
often this isn't the caseand very often extremely verbose crap like
images/etc. (dammit' mom get with the program) is often left in as well.

mike klein

Kyle Lutze wrote:

>now, can't you post correctly in a mailing list?
>I mean come on, a computer
>guru not knowing about that?

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

I would only add that if EVERYBDY bottom-posted on a particular forum
and ALWAYS snipped unnecessary prior poststhen I would do the
samejust out of courtesy for established protocol.

Just as I have my own coding conventions which I use for my own code,
yet if I'm editing another owner's source I will follow their
established conventionsjust to not break continuityand of course
not to be a jerk.

mike

Kyle Lutze wrote:
yeah, that was a slight accident, the first one I composed only went
to him since I didn't hit reply-all, and didn't fully edit the second
one. :/

ok, so I'm a bit of a hypocrite sometimes too. Also, I didn't mean to
say wikipedia's definition was a way to go, I was just using that to
show my reason without having to put it all in

Kyle

Mike Klein wrote:
>And yet you quoted netdev's entire email for no good reason
>whatsoeveranother breach of supposed netiquette.
>>
>Top vs. bottom posting is a bunch of crap. With 20 years experience
>in computing I have yet to see consensus on this issueregardless
>of wikipedia definition.
>>
>I subscribe to numerous mail lists/etc. and far prefer top
>postsless scrolling to bottom too see what is being said. If
>people snipped orig post than bottom posting would <possiblybe
>preferrablebut quite often this isn't the caseand very often
>extremely verbose crap like images/etc. (dammit' mom get with the
>program) is often left in as well.
>>
>mike klein
>>
>Kyle Lutze wrote:
>>
now, can't you post correctly in a mailing list?
I mean come on, a computer
guru not knowing about that?

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

I thought the whole Abad thing was a scam and he was a part of Project
Mayhem along with is co-worker (at the time) Jim Jones over at Qualys.

Hey there is a concept. Lets trust a vendor that hires known hackers
who are known to participate in illegal activity and stores your vuln
assessment information on their computers in their datacenters.

Yup, I am signing up right now ummm no

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

But yet you threatened to "knock us off the internet" in your previous
troll thread.

So which is it **** breath?

11/26/05, n3td3v <xploitable (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
I have never hacked a
computer, I am not a hacker. I have never used anyone elses exploit to
hack a computer, I am not a script kid. I read news sites, mailing
lists and am friends of hackers, employees of vendors and script kids.
I am a researcher of security in that context. I know a lot of people
call themselves security researchers who are actually hackers, but i'm
a security researcher, as in I read security news and keep up with
what hackers are up to and report stuff to employees of vendors.

I run my own intelligence service and report **** to vendors. Time to
get educated and stop throwing titles around based on your misinformed
opinion based on someone you know nothing about.

11/26/05, memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) ai <memetic_engineer (AT) hush (DOT) aiwrote:
n3td3v, or other script kiddies that seem to populate this list nowaday.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

I don't feel the urgency to explain the complexed reasoning behind my
postingsGo back to your unimportant job in the industry and keep
away from my operations.

Feel free to pass your judgements, they will be noted, but are
unlikely to be listened to. You havent contributed to the scene,
unless you can show us all a web site (even if its a geocities site)
of what your position is within the scene.

Even if its the most low level of script kiddie hood or weather youre
a security professional, at least give us all something to go on, or
don't expect people such as myself to give you a second thought to
reply to you with the answer you're fishing to get.

If you take my remarks out of context, thats upto you.

Further attempts to noise me up will be ignored have a good weekend
mr InfoSecBFH we'll be in touch.

11/26/05, InfoSecBFH <infosecbofh (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
But yet you threatened to "knock us off the internet" in your previous
troll thread.

So which is it **** breath?

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

damn guys, can't we just all get along? maybe sit down and have a cup of
whatever highly cafinated drink you like?
I thought this email would keep me abreast on the latest security holes
that I should update my system for.

Kyle

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Kyle Lutze wrote:
damn guys, can't we just all get along? maybe sit down and have a cup of
whatever highly cafinated drink you like?
I thought this email would keep me abreast on the latest security holes
that I should update my system for.

Kyle
err, email list, I should probably get some caffeine in myself so I can
think straight.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Holy ****. is everyone here 13? I feel like I'm sitting in grade school again.
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

here's an idea: ignore everyone and stfu for once, and maybe this
list can get back to "normal".

11/26/05, n3td3v <xploitable (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:

Further attempts to noise me up will be ignored have a good weekend

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Heres a list of some stuff from months and years ago that I have
republished for your benefit http://n3td3v.blogspot.com

Theres more to come in the future.

Keep a bookmark of my GeoCities site to keep abreast on the latest
Yahoo developments to be released to the world that I have had
personal involvement in over the past months and years.

11/27/05, Spam Links <spamlinks.net (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
"n3td3v",

I subscribed to Full Disclosure to read about security disclosures.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

MG HAI!!!, Wow your job is almost complete, all you have to do now is find
some one in the list that actually cares!!
Message
From: "n3td3v" <xploitable (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: <webmaster (AT) spamlinks (DOT) net>; <full-disclosure (AT) lists (DOT) grok.org.uk>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Return of the Phrack High Council

Heres a list of some stuff from months and years ago that I have
republished for your benefit http://n3td3v.blogspot.com

Theres more to come in the future.

Keep a bookmark of my GeoCities site to keep abreast on the latest
Yahoo developments to be released to the world that I have had
personal involvement in over the past months and years.

11/27/05, Spam Links <spamlinks.net (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
"n3td3v",

I subscribed to Full Disclosure to read about security disclosures.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

ironically, i think n3td3v is acting somewhat sane here

i mean, there have been much less useful posts on this thread

mod +2 for informative.

VeNoMouS wrote:
MG HAI!!!, Wow your job is almost complete, all you have to do now is
find some one in the list that actually cares!!
Message From: "n3td3v" <xploitable (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: <webmaster (AT) spamlinks (DOT) net>; <full-disclosure (AT) lists (DOT) grok.org.uk>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Return of the Phrack High Council

Heres a list of some stuff from months and years ago that I have
republished for your benefit http://n3td3v.blogspot.com

Theres more to come in the future.

Keep a bookmark of my GeoCities site to keep abreast on the latest
Yahoo developments to be released to the world that I have had
personal involvement in over the past months and years.

11/27/05, Spam Links <spamlinks.net (AT) gmail (DOT) comwrote:
>"n3td3v",
>>
>I subscribed to Full Disclosure to read about security disclosures.

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

shut up kid, noone ever cares about your posts n3td0rk and your website is
all crap.
no code at all and no interesting info. your just a pathetic wannabie who's
ego
seems a little too high compared to his skill level. since you got no skill
at all.
funny thing is you complain that others just bash you and have nothing
constructive
to add, well sofar you didnt provide this list with any valuable information
either.
so if you wouldnt waste your time with posting bull****, then the people
wouldnt
bash you. after many postings about your idiotic behaviour you should
finally realize
that noone wants you here.

Message
From: "n3td3v" <xploitable (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: "VeNoMouS" <venom (AT) gen-x (DOT) co.nz>; <full-disclosure (AT) lists (DOT) grok.org.uk>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Return of the Phrack High Council

You cared enough to post your usual ****. Your usual **** intales
bashing others, where you have nothing constructive to add to the
conversation. Go back to your IRC hideout mr Venom. Thanx

11/28/05, VeNoMouS <venom (AT) gen-x (DOT) co.nzwrote:
MG HAI!!!, Wow your job is almost complete, all you have to do now is
find
some one in the list that actually cares!!

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

You cared enough to post your usual ****. Your usual **** intales
bashing others, where you have nothing constructive to add to the
conversation. Go back to your IRC hideout mr Venom. Thanx

11/28/05, VeNoMouS <venom (AT) gen-x (DOT) co.nzwrote:
MG HAI!!!, Wow your job is almost complete, all you have to do now is find
some one in the list that actually cares!!

Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter:
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/